So if you received this item....

[desslock]

...here's the picture as advertised in the listing: www.ebay.com/itm/130623790609?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

...and here's the picture as it arrived:
(there's also a hole in the top that isn't evident from that photo, but you get the point)

I'd like to give this guy the benefit of the doubt since he opened the listing to non-US purchasers by request, but it also doesn't help that he charged me $38+ for shipping that cost him $23, so he doesn't seem to be the most honest person (although he does have a 100% positive Ebay rating).

I just find it weird that people can be so petty and dishonest - it seems highly likely that he had a perfect, sealed version of the kit that somehow got damaged and so he tried to dump it off and pretend it got damaged in transit. I'm trying to be a nice guy here, but am I being unreasonable to request a refund or at least a sizable discount? What sort of discount do you think is appropriate?

[RetroArt]

I was following that auction.
First of all, the guy's eBay moniker has the word "crook" in it!
Second, he lays out all these disclaimers along the lines of "I dunno, sh!t happens to stuff during shipping...".
His auction image looks like a perfect MISB example of the later issue.
How was it packed?
What kind of condition is the shipping box in when it arrived to you?
Also, can you post a photo of the opposite side of the box?
Post a closer picture of that side please.

[scooke123]

If you don't get anywhere with him report it to Ebay - I assume you used Paypal for payment? I would want my money back since its obvious you were paying for that nicely sealed kit. The shape of the one you got I wouldnt have wanted to pay more that $50 -60 for it. Plus you got gigged pretty well on the shipping too. This guy deserves a negative feedback.

[TAY666]

I'd be pissed if that happened to me.
It is clearly doesn't look like what the auction pictured.
Is there any chance that it got crushed in transit?
It seems possible that the seller had no idea how to package a collectible.
If you look at his feedback, and the items he has sold. You can see that he doesn't deal in collectibles at at all.

[desslock]

It's possible it got crushed in transit - the box it came in is crushed. But it's also taped up - it could have easily been done prior to mailing to make it look like happened in transit (there's also a whole bunch of "fragile" stickers and stamps on it....maybe too many). I was conscious of possible damage given the condition of the box, but it actually seemed like the damaged part of the model was NOT near the damaged part of the package - I'm not certain of that, so that may be my suspicions reading too much into the situation as my recollection isn't certain.

Retro - good point on the "john Crook" name, heh. Did you actually bid on that kit?
Scooke - I haven't had any luck reporting anything to ebay, but did use paypal, so I'll likely file a dispute if we can't agree on an appropriate refund.

Anyway, he's saying the right things, and like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but he still feels "fake" to me. Here's what he wrote:

"I assure you, I took very much care in packaging that for shipment. It's obvious, that somewhere between putting it on the counter at the Postal office and your address. It was abused. The tragic part. Is the lady at the counter put a couple fragile stickers on the box for me. Appairently a carrier misread them. I did insure the package. I will look into that a.s.a.p. Please send me some more pictures of the shipping box. And what ever else you may think relevant to a claim. As for my personal neglect in regards to follow up correspondence, I.E. date shipped, tracking number. I am sorry. I have no solemn excuse. I assumed you received the package weeks ago. In regards to the extra $15 for the shipping. I must apologize for that too. I thought $15 was a fair cup for my time to, at, and from the P.O. Though I will admit it rested a bit heavy on my concience. But against you, my friends and family assured me of no wrong doing. I am sorry just the same. I will get back to you soon. "

...just things like "I assumed you received the package weeks ago" when it was only mailed 10 days ago, and "my family assured me of no wrong doing" -- it all just seems odd, but we'll see how it plays out.

Here's a picture of the damaged shipping box:

and a couple of different views of the box, including the other side as Retro asked:



and the top - which is actually ripped and open.



As you can see from the top - it's torn into, which is just not something I'd expect any postal service to do - crushed or stacked near something heavy, but cut into? Something just doesn't seem legitimate about his story.

[RetroArt]

Here's the image of the kit in the auction:
See the original, yellowing tape running over the "ST" in "PREHISTORIC"?
I don't see that anywhere in the photos of the kit you have.
Even if it was removed - I think there would've been some damage
to the litho of the box over those two letters-
and I don't see any tear or peel damage to those letters
on either side of the box in your pix.
Hmmmm....

[RetroArt]

BTW- this kit was sent "international" to you- it crossed national borders and had to go thru Customs?

[desslock]

Good detective work, but I checked and there is indeed tape over those two letters (ST) - it doesn't look as yellow, but that might just be different lighting or a bit of a quirk of the original picture.

The package did go though customs (US-->Canada), but if customs opens a package they're required to provide that confirmation -- and this package looks more "mauled" than opened for inspection, especially given the hole punctured into it - really ripped into it. I really think there's only 2 explanations: (a) the package got stuck in a machine/punctured/mauled in transit, which is just really unlucky; or (b) seller had a damaged package that he tried to get a better price for -- I'm leaning, again, to giving him the benefit of the doubt, even though I think some of his responses have felt a little "off," largely because he has a sizable record as a seller on ebay, 100% positive rating, and as Trevor indicated, little experience with hobby kits so it doesn't seem like he was trying to offload damaged inventory.

Still unsure what the appropriate resolution is though. I do have multiple copies of this kit (and a couple 71s), and really only bid for this one because it was in mint condition - so hopefully he can get an insurance refund.

[desslock]

Well, just thought I'd post an update on this matter. The vendor indicated that the shipment was insured, and that it would take up to 23 (?) days for me to get the appropriate paperwork for the claim. I indicated that was fine - not ideal, but like I said earlier, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt even though in this instance I think his responses are disingenuous. Bottom line, I think the kit was damaged preshipment, and I think someone shill bid at the last minute to bump up the price too, but don't really care -- I just was never going to let this go on principle.

So a month later, and I hadn't received any insurance forms, so I followed up. He indicated that he followed up with the insurance company and they said it could be 23 (!) business days. I told him that was still fine, but I was going to file a Paypal claim since otherwise the time limit was going to expire.

He sent back another weird response, saying that the insurance company might send someone to my door, and suggesting maybe we should just let it go as a shared "unlucky" experience. There's a lot of people that I've dealt with on ebay where I might have even considered doing so (although not if someone expressly requested it) -- the reality is, once I buy a kit (or anything), as far as I'm concerned the money is gone and I no longer even think about it -- but if I feel that "justice" demands a response, I'll never, ever let anything go, even if it's for $0.06, and this guy just doesn't feel right.

The reality is I've bought 4 sabertooth kits on ebay over the past year before this one (I know, I'm obsessed) -- they weren't new, unopened kits -- but two of them were complete (one 71, with the 1-piece base, and one 72, with 2 piece base, but a crappy box) and 1 other that was complete with both based but no box, and another that had a good 72 box, but was missing the torso -- each of which cost me around $20. I'm not suggesting that's fair market value for an unopened, unmade kit (if anything, recent auctions have shown how much variance there is in kit price), but it does highlight that I was willing to pay a substantial premium for this kit, which I didn't really need, solely because it was in mint shape -- the only reason I bought it was to have a nice, unopened kit, to make and/or display.

So I kind of feel bad, but I filed the Paypal claim and said that I'd return the kit for a full refund (including shipping both ways, but I'd accept the import fees as a loss) or keep the kit for a $100 refund (giving the kit a market price in damaged form of about $50, but I'd also had to pay $27 for import and around the same for shipping - the reality is, I wouldn't have bought the kit). Anyway, with Paypal assistance the latter offer was accepted - so either the guy knew that he was "caught" or he is just a reasonable or even magnanimous guy and felt the settlement was appropriate, which if the case makes me feel somewhat bad for being a hardass. But I'm certainly happy with the result, and feel safer than ever using Paypal.

[acroray]

It sounds to me like he was trying to rook you, and then cover his a55 every which way he could.

You did the right thing.

[TAY666]

Yeah.
Sounds like he was trying to put you off until you had no recourse through PayPal left.
Good job keeping on top of it.
Too many times I have heard buyers lament waiting too long to do something, then being left holding the bag.

[RetroArt]

Glad it was a "hapy" ending- in so much that you got some $$ back. The real shame is that if this was a MIB kit, it was so damaged.
At this point in time I see what we all are doing with mint kits is nothing more than rescue and preservation!
I end up buying a huge, miscellaneous, hodge-podge of stuff only because i don't like the idea of someone tossing it into the trash if it doesn't sell.
Pop Culture is history and history needs to be preserved.
I'm done now- back to your regularly scheduled thread